An Inappropriate Response
The news coming from Israel and Gaza is not good. A truce that had existed between Hamas and Israel ended recently without being renewed. Hamas began rocket attacks, though to this point only 1 person has been killed. Israel, as is often the case, has reacted with zealous militancy, launching air strikes that have killed more than 200, and injured more than 600 more. Some of these people are likely Hamas militants, but many others could be innocents.
As a Christian, I am cognizant of our history of oppression of Jews. This history makes it difficult to condemn the actions of Israel, when taken in self-defense. Still, as a Christian, I cannot, stand back and refrain from commenting on what is an inappropriate and disproportionate response to those attacks.
I pray that both sides will back down, and begin talking again. I also pray that the Israeli's will suspend their blockades that keeps food and supplies from reaching the Palestinians. The Israeli response has done little to protect them.
This is an ongoing situation, that has been festering now for decades. It is a situation that we need to push our leaders to resolve. It won't be easy, but it is a necessary effort. I realize that some of my Christian brothers and sisters believe that Israel can do no wrong and that their theologies require Israel to control the entire area of Palestine. My theology, however, doesn't require this. So, I will pray for peace, a lasting peace for all in the region.
As a Christian, I am cognizant of our history of oppression of Jews. This history makes it difficult to condemn the actions of Israel, when taken in self-defense. Still, as a Christian, I cannot, stand back and refrain from commenting on what is an inappropriate and disproportionate response to those attacks.
I pray that both sides will back down, and begin talking again. I also pray that the Israeli's will suspend their blockades that keeps food and supplies from reaching the Palestinians. The Israeli response has done little to protect them.
This is an ongoing situation, that has been festering now for decades. It is a situation that we need to push our leaders to resolve. It won't be easy, but it is a necessary effort. I realize that some of my Christian brothers and sisters believe that Israel can do no wrong and that their theologies require Israel to control the entire area of Palestine. My theology, however, doesn't require this. So, I will pray for peace, a lasting peace for all in the region.
Comments
Israel's attackers hide in civilian areas in order to protect themselves and to try accusing Israel of murder when Israel gets tired of being bombed and fights back. And the "civilians" are hardly innocent; they agree with and harbor Israel's attackers. If the bombers and missle launchers would stop hiding behind children, then fewer children would be killed in such attacks.
Before anyone else says so, I realize that Hamas is also killing a disportionate number of non-combatants. They are equally, EQUALLY, guilty of stupidity.
NO APARTHAID AGAINST PALESTINIANS!!!
This is a very complex situation, but we tend to only get very simple/simplistic answers and reports. The US has never been an honest broker in this. The Palestinian people have, in general, been caught in between opposing forces -- whether between the Brits and the Ottomans, Israel and the Arab powers, or SuperPower shenanigans.
There are two issues here -- the history and the facts on the ground. We can't undo history, but we can change the facts on the ground.
There is a relatively new term in international relations -
"asymmetric warfare" - which is the unavoidable consequence when a superior force meets a significantly inferior force. The inferior force has no alternative but to turn to "unconventional" tactics, such as suicide bombing, kidnapping, hiding strategic assets behind civilian fronts and terrorism.
As long as Israel acts the occupier, they will confront the unconventional tactics of their asymmetrically challenged foes. No amount of retaliation, short of genocide will end the resistance movement.
Israel needs to reach the conclusion, as a nation, that peace with the Palestinians is the only option, and then they will make the hard bargains that will allow peace to happen.
John
P.S. And Gary, agreement with the resentment and hatred of the bombers is hardly justification for murder. If so then you must also conclude that Palestinian genocide is acceptable.
Once again we find ourselves in disagreement. Gaza belongs to Israel. Your charge that Israel is "occupying" land that isn't theirs is simply untrue. Because your basic premise is wrong, so are all of your conclusions.
Not only does Gaza not belong to Israel, Israel does not claim ownership of the Gaza. Israel has continued to occupy it to various degrees since it took it from Egypt in 1967. Israel recently signed documents for the turnover of the area to Palestinian self-rule (Oslo Accords). From the beginning of the State of Israel in 1948 until 1967, Gaza was governed/administered by Egypt.
Gaza is wholly dependent on Israeli cooperation for its access to the outside world and the provisions it requires from the outside world, as Israel controls its airspace and maritime trade routes. Its economic and military control of Gaza in my mind, and in the mind of Gazans constitutes de facto occupation. The place is little more than a refugee camp.
It is my understanding that the only short or long term interests Israel has in Gaza are its continuing security concerns. And until they decide that peace is worth the price of making painful concessions, those security concerns are going to continue unabated.
Your statement "Because your basic premise is wrong, so are all of your conclusions." is probably best applied to your own statements and conclusions.
John
But we have to try.
The US is in the position to broker a deal. We can bring the sides together. We wont solve all the problems but we can help with a few problems here & there. Over time, =maybe= we can get some semblance of a working truce. But we must try.
Laying blame doesn't solve the problem but it does make the problem seem unsolvable.
Blessed are the peacemakers ...
God gave Gaza, and a lot more, to Israel. I'm not sure that Israel has the right to give away what God gave them. If Israel did give Gaza away, given its closeness to Israel, and the hatred of those who live there, it is a threat to Israel, which Israel cannot ignore.
Neither will making concessions to the Gazans provide peace. You cannot make peace with those who think that only justice will be served when you are dead.
Israel must do whatever they have to in order to stop the attacks; if that means killing 200, or 200,000. The "palestinians" understand brute force, but little else.
What God promised the Israel more than 3,000 years ago has long since been lost, some would say, taken away by the will of God. Not only has the promise been squandered, but the modern state of Israel is not the same Israel to whom God made the promise.
If you take your Christian heritage seriously, you must acknowledge that Christianity is the contemporary heir to the promise made to Israel. So then are we to move in and retake the Holy Land as our inheritance?
Also, I am not certain that Gaza was included in the promise, I will have to do some research to answer that.
But whatever the bounds of the original promise, it was squandered and modern Israel may not be it's rightful heir, especially if you are coming from a Christian perspective. If you are coming from a Jewish perspective, then you need to jettison the New Testament altogether as a source of religious understanding - which I don't think you are willing to do.
John
Jolly good show.
Gary, I'm not sure can be reasoned with. As long as you can layer fantasy on top of fantasy, you're always the winner in your own mind. Cheerio!
In the U.S.--and ONLY in the U.S.--the mainstream media report things completely from the p.o.v. that Israel can do no wrong. One can find more questioning of the actions of the Israeli govt. on the pages of the average ISRAELI newspaper than in anything in the U.S.
Before any non-pacifist U.S. citizen DARES to comment, I would recommend REGULAR reading of the Israeli press. Most, like Ha'aretz (the largest paper in Israel) and The Jerusalem Post have English lannguage cites online--so there is no excuse. There you find articles and editorials that are hawkishly for Israel and articles and editorials that are dovish or even pro-Palestinian--to a degree that would be suicide for any mainstream paper to publish in the U.S. And you will find everything in between.
If you cannnot go to Palestine (and only travel to Israel on those tours designed to show American Christian tourists "Bible Lands") and meet the ordinary people who live under the occupation--Christian as well as Muslim and you cannnot meet with Israelis who do not support the party line (e.g., Peace Now, Rabbis for Human Rights, etc.), then do the next best thing and read the Israeli press.
Before the Gary's etc. have done that, they have no right to say what is or is not appropriate in response.
None of this excuses the actions of Hamas--I'm just tired of one-sided reporting.
Also, from a purely rational point of view, I think that Israel, being the side with the prohibitively greater strength, is the side which has to move first and has to move farthest to bring this tragedy to a peaceful and just conclusion.
John
I do not subscribe to "replacement theology"(the notion that the Church has replaced Israel). God made certain promises to the Jews that have not been revoked.
I would not say that Israel can do no wrong, but so far in this particular round of fighting, I have not seen them do anything I disagree with.
Let me understand: you reject the following from Galatians:
There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise.
...
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children. And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God."
And from Ephesians:
"In former generations this mystery was not made known to humankind, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: that is, the Gentiles have become fellow heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel."
And from ROmans:
"For the promise that he would inherit the world did not come to Abraham or to his descendants through the law but through the righteousness of faith. If it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there violation. For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham...."
Interesting that you of all people would feel free to reject this fairly consistent and broadly based teaching from Paul. That is expressing a great deal of theological autonomy on your part.
John
No, I don't reject those scriptures at all, but none of the scriptures you referenced proves, or even suggests, that the Church has been substituted for Israel.
The modern nation state of Israel is not an heir to the promise, but the children of Abraham are.
Modern Jews throughout the world, as well as Christians, and Muslims all claim to be children of Abraham.
John