tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post1305893968281572763..comments2024-03-28T00:58:29.445-04:00Comments on Ponderings on a Faith Journey: Close to the Father’s Heart -- Lectionary Reflection for Christmas 2BRobert Cornwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-88497251388018329142014-12-31T01:39:01.643-05:002014-12-31T01:39:01.643-05:00Even to extrapolate a number, whether, one, three ...Even to extrapolate a number, whether, one, three or more, is to infer more than the metaphor actually invites, and distorts the core truth of the Incarnation, that is, God (as both YHWH and Elohim) with us, manifest in human form. While the Trinity is a benign metaphor, the credal compulsion to embrace it is an act of violence on the consciences of the members of the faith community not in keeping with either the teachings of Jesus or the general precepts of the DOC.John McCauslinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-81065318556120365152014-12-30T16:43:36.757-05:002014-12-30T16:43:36.757-05:00Is it possible, perhaps. But the question is how ...Is it possible, perhaps. But the question is how this works? For me, I find the Trinity to be the best way of expressing the nature of God as a community of persons. As I understand the Trinity, Jesus is in essence the nexus where divinity and humanity fully meet. I would recommend reading LaCugna -- It's not a fast read, but extremely helpful.<br /><br /><br />As for Salvation -- that will be coming. I plan on doing a post Easter series on salvation that will follow up on an Epiphany series on the person of God. Should be fun!Robert Cornwallhttp://bobcornwall.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-64072831564243056372014-12-30T14:43:09.930-05:002014-12-30T14:43:09.930-05:00Bob, is it not possible that Jesus could manifest ...Bob, is it not possible that Jesus could manifest the invisible God apart from the notion of the Trinity or a high view of the incarnation?<br /><br />NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW: How about doing a post or series on the concept of salvation. Just what are we being saved from and for?Steve Kindlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-18640002635813295352014-12-30T13:49:37.227-05:002014-12-30T13:49:37.227-05:00Steve and John, of course, you know that I'll ...Steve and John, of course, you know that I'll have to respectfully disagree on this. One of the reasons I have embraced the doctrine of the Trinity is that it offers us a way to attend to the invisible God embodied in Christ and made present to us by the continuing work of the Holy Spirit. We may not have access to the essence of God, but in the ongoing work of Christ and the Spirit we can hear the voice of God and see the work of God.Robert Cornwallhttp://bobcornwall.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-68981160409321266892014-12-30T13:22:01.770-05:002014-12-30T13:22:01.770-05:00Yes, thoroughly metaphorical. The downside to this...Yes, thoroughly metaphorical. The downside to this is that the metaphors are literalized and then destroy the intended meaning. This has happened from Adam to Jesus, and especially to God who has been anthropomorphized into something completely "other," and not in a transcendent way, either.Steve Kindlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-65273333813557437432014-12-30T10:47:41.798-05:002014-12-30T10:47:41.798-05:00God is so "other" that we can only know ...God is so "other" that we can only know of God in a metaphorical sense, we can only conceptualize about God in terms comprehendable through human experience. And we must remember that metaphors are by nature incomplete, only lifting up a particular aspect of the underlying reality being depicted. And finally whatever is discoverable about God, is limited to what God is willing to disclose. Jesus, as the incarnation of God in this world, is in this sense a metaphor for the reality of God - we must always remember that God is "other" and is not directly comprehendable. <br /><br />But we can know what God wants us to know about God, we can see in Jesus' life, we can hear in Jesus' teachings, we can touch in Jesus,' wounds, and we can anticipate from Jesus' resurrection, the revelation intended for us.John McCauslinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-31540453076300854212014-12-29T11:58:30.394-05:002014-12-29T11:58:30.394-05:00The problem with philosophical "proofs" ...The problem with philosophical "proofs" is that the nature of the god proposed is elusive. Where do you go from, say, Aristotle's "unmoved mover" to its nature? Even Anselm's imagined god has no substance, only existence. The move from a "proof" to the God of the Bible is impossible philosophically. <br /><br />This is why the incarnation appeals to me. There can be no other way for God to be revealed except through a person. However, I part company with those who try to explain this relationship in terms of Greek ontology. The reason it fails is because the enterprise is impossible. "I will now tell you what God's essence is." Please, don't. But Jesus can show us what God's sensibilities are. They are in Luke 4, and how Jesus lived these out. But God's essence? Attempts like these caused Tillich to declare that all conversation about God is a reduction of the true God, and the true God is the "God above God," above the God we talk about. <br /><br />Certainly God is a relational God. but you don't need the Trinity to know that. You don't even need the Trinity to explain Jesus' ability to tell us about God. "The Father and I are one," is not necessarily (or at all) an ontological truth. One in purpose is how I understand this. How can this be? Because he lived his life so close to God that it brought him clarity and became a revelation to the world. <br /><br />Your final paragraph is a very profound statement that I endorse wholeheartedly. <i>On this second Sunday of Christmas, in an age that is increasingly <br />focused on the individual, in isolation from the other, it is revelatory<br /> that we find our true humanity in relationship to the other. Of <br />course, these relations are often broken, but in Christ, the one closest<br /> to the heart of God, this brokenness of relationship can begin to heal <br />as we draw closer into the heart of God ourselves.<i> I would encourage your readers to ponder over why this is revelatory.</i></i>Steve Kindlenoreply@blogger.com