tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post3180338709755201241..comments2024-03-28T10:26:20.408-04:00Comments on Ponderings on a Faith Journey: Counting the Cost of Discipleship -- A Lectionary Reflection on the Gospel (Pentecost 16 C)Robert Cornwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-11351093530609926332013-09-04T16:01:58.455-04:002013-09-04T16:01:58.455-04:00Yes, I do know that, and consider your book perhap...Yes, I do know that, and consider your book perhaps the best on the subject. I heard the question less as tongue in cheek and more of a question of qualification: In what way can we do this? Usually, it is qualified with "in as far as the nation supports Kingdom values." In that case, there is no need to support the nation, as it is already supported in supporting the Kingdom. So I must maintain that to pose the question is to subvert the Kingdom in the process.<br /><br /><br />I love America, that is to say, I love the myth of America. I cannot love what America does in its own self-interest over the interests of others in the name of Pax Americana. I love the idea of humanity much, much more, and the Kingdom ultimately.Steve Kindlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-31554075933234886192013-09-04T15:31:32.768-04:002013-09-04T15:31:32.768-04:00Steve, of course you know I asked the question of ...Steve, of course you know I asked the question of allegiance with a bit of tongue in cheek. As you know from reading my book on the Lord's Prayer, I have placed our allegiance to God and God's realm in contrast to that of nation. I am a patriotic American, but my allegiance to nation must come second to God. The same, of course, must be said about family -- though that one is a bit more difficult!Robert Cornwallhttp://bobcornwall.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-27151358201018589062013-09-04T15:24:39.053-04:002013-09-04T15:24:39.053-04:00There is no doubt that America suffers from the id...There is no doubt that America suffers from the idolatry of the family. "Putting family first" means over other families, our congregations, and any other thing that may come between our family and our wants. The issue is not the despising of mother and father as human beings, but the roles they played in contemporary Palestinian life that put families at odds with Kingdom demands. Jesus’ new family was a family of choice bound together, not by patriarchal or any other societal notion of the ideal family, but by radical equality, and living for the wellbeing of one another and serving each other to that end. Jesus’ purpose is not to instruct his followers to renounce their relatives, but to reject family notions built around blood, power structures and patriarchal subordination. They would be welcomed into Jesus’s new family with a new understanding of roles and relationships.<br /><br />Until we reclaim the priority of the cruciform congregation over all things, including family and nation, we are stuck with having to answer your false question, "We can pledge allegiance to our nation and still maintain our allegiance to Jesus – am I not correct?" I must reply you are not correct; nations, including the USA are subjects of the principalities and powers, and, as such, are enemies of the Kingdom of God.<br /><br />(PS When I say "cruciform congregation" I mean one that lives solely by the gospel mandates to love God and neighbor fully. I do not mean dysfunctional, non-cruciform congregations that live for self-perpetuation or other lessor values.)Steve Kindlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-79995142984739505112013-09-04T09:12:26.890-04:002013-09-04T09:12:26.890-04:00This is one of those passages that when read in is...This is one of those passages that when read in isolation, I think becomes more extreme (though under the right circumstances that may be appropriate). What follows: Are we still salty? And what precedes: Though here we are cautioned to evaluate the cost before preceding but just before to not make excuses for failing to enter the kingdom.Jeffery Agnewnoreply@blogger.com