tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post7186869641617072169..comments2024-02-19T13:11:04.970-05:00Comments on Ponderings on a Faith Journey: Our Father -- One In Whom We can TrustRobert Cornwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-42757677461667717272010-02-22T12:50:07.994-05:002010-02-22T12:50:07.994-05:00David -- metaphor, metaphor!!!David -- metaphor, metaphor!!!Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-36414329317732580092010-02-22T12:37:58.160-05:002010-02-22T12:37:58.160-05:00"If God is the adoptive father, then who is t..."If God is the adoptive father, then who is the birth father? Good question. "<br /><br />Well, DNA paternal testing is what, $150? David McAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-48073769103778673282010-02-21T20:56:06.822-05:002010-02-21T20:56:06.822-05:00John,
Yes, I thought about the fact that the empe...John,<br /><br />Yes, I thought about the fact that the emperor was both the son of a god and the great father.<br /><br />What I believe the point in the passage here is that we are children of God, who is our patron and provider. I don't think that rules out other images or interpretations. I simply want to get at the point of the text -- which I think is adoption. The patron needn't be distant. In the story of Ben Hur, the relationship between Arius and Judah isn't distant. Though Judah ultimately must choose between his loyalty to Arius and his loyalty to the Jewish people.Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-44125062234489223752010-02-21T20:14:19.223-05:002010-02-21T20:14:19.223-05:00For me the picture of God as "patron" wh...For me the picture of God as "patron" which finds support in Scripture by Jesus' several parables which refer to the "master" of the household, is ultimately trumped by the description of God as "father" and God's people as "children". It may just be my own bias but envisioning God as patron just doesn't work for me. Too distant, too disconnected, and too dispassionate. And as a believer, I cannot generate much internal passion about the absentee master.<br /><br />By the way, I wonder if you factored into your analysis on adoption and empire, the fact that Augustus, the 'great father' of the Roman Empire and the first Roman emperor to be called the 'Son of God,' whose death preceded Jesus by but a few years, was the adopted son of Julius Caeser?<br /><br />JohnJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06245470576919732592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-64445384560227751762010-02-21T17:32:06.208-05:002010-02-21T17:32:06.208-05:00If God is the adoptive father, then who is the bir...If God is the adoptive father, then who is the birth father? Good question. <br /><br />I believe that if we look at the biblical view, which I think Calvin has in mind, the adoptive father's choice trumps all other choices. <br /><br />I think of the scene in Ben Hur, which I refer to in the audio version of the sermon this morning, where Judah Ben Hur becomes the adopted son of the man he had rescued, freeing him from slavery.<br /><br />Again, I'm not sure where Calvin would be on this, but if the Roman Emperor is the Great Father of all, by becoming children of God by adoption, does that not change one's allegiance?Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-22001317642180995002010-02-20T23:33:59.015-05:002010-02-20T23:33:59.015-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06245470576919732592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-8330213112241074292010-02-20T23:30:59.715-05:002010-02-20T23:30:59.715-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06245470576919732592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-875005142587968172010-02-20T22:53:14.055-05:002010-02-20T22:53:14.055-05:00Bob,
**Nonetheless, Calvin does remind us that we...Bob,<br /><br />**Nonetheless, Calvin does remind us that we are children of God and that this status -- not of birth but of adoption is important.**<br /><br />In this viewpoint, if God is the adoptive Father, who's considered the "birth" father?OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-932735919331448942010-02-20T16:54:37.414-05:002010-02-20T16:54:37.414-05:00That was amusing John, but I'll bet you have s...That was amusing John, but I'll bet you have some hearing loss. Ouch. David McAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-43838896234984883972010-02-20T09:50:34.635-05:002010-02-20T09:50:34.635-05:00"Addressing God as Father carries with it cer..."Addressing God as Father carries with it certain patriarchal nuances that we must acknowledge and wrestle with."<br /><br />For me as a man addressing God as Father never presented gender issues. Initially, I assumed that "Father" was exactly what Jesus meant, in gender specific terms. <br /><br />As I became more aware of the complexity of God I came to credit Jesus (and God) with a more nuanced perspective (ignoring the fact that he was a 'fully human' male raised and acculturated in a very patriarchal society) I assumed that Jesus use of "Father" surely meant a more gender neutral "parent" and that this term was used to teach an understanding of God as an archetype of the perfect divine mother/father figure, projected by God, through the words of Scripture, as a progression away from the autocratic figure as Lord and Master. <br /><br />Then I began to understand that regardless of what the Gospel writer's (and Jesus) initially intended, Scripture, as the living Word of God, speaks to each new generation and indeed to each new person, with a new voice and a new intonation if not a new language. The meaning and intent of the original writer, while valuable, was but one interpretation of the words which must be considered - though not necessarily controlling. The meaning of Scripture is not about what we read, but about what we hear - how we interpret the words, allowing ourselves to be open to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the process of interpreting the text which God has preserved for us. <br /><br />I learned that from a feminist's perspective that when she hears the word "Father" this can be a stumbling block, challenging her to work through the nuances which she understands from her hermanuetic, to reach past the gender curtain imposed by patriarchy and see an aspect of God not previously known. Not being a feminist, my personal responsibility in such circumstances is not to guess what a feminist might encounter, but to listen to her and hear her in her own words share what she found, not only in terms of the previously unheard message from God, but of the previously unrecognized burdens and stumbling blocks which the unbridaled power of patriarchy has placed in the path of women. ("Unbridaled" - now there is a pregnant word for me to choose.)<br /><br />And I know that God thought it was particularly important for me to listen to the feminist message, as God gifted me with a household filled with eloquent feminists - and while everything else on my body might be falling apart, my hearing remains unimpaired! <br /><br />JohnJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06245470576919732592noreply@blogger.com