tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post8812951592136495221..comments2024-02-19T13:11:04.970-05:00Comments on Ponderings on a Faith Journey: Why the Bible in Progressive Worship?Robert Cornwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-81623509050149195502010-08-02T18:30:21.429-04:002010-08-02T18:30:21.429-04:00Bob,
For me, worship without service of the word ...Bob,<br /><br />For me, worship without service of the word is ... not worship. <br /><br />Whether in a progressive church or a conservative, we need a certain amount of focus on the Bible. From my perspective the ideal is achieved when one begins to unconsciously or subliminally interpret one's life and life choices based upon the teachings of the Bible. This requires enough familiarity with Scripture to call on it and the ability to perceive and interpret Scripture metaphorically.<br /><br />For example, in the grand scheme of my life it doesn't matter that Jesus restored a guard's ear in the garden, but in that story I learn that he was so committed to non-violence that he would use his extraordinary powers to heal an obvious enemy, bent on his arrest and murder - and this should make me pause before I heap scorn on those who do, or threaten to do me harm. And this is the kind of teaching that comes from good use of Scripture in Progressive or conservative worship.<br /><br />Does this lesson lead me to tolerate and accept violence unjustly directed toward me or others? Perhaps, but I am not Jesus. At the least it should give me pause before I strike back, worrying over the implications for everyone involved.<br /><br />The goal then is to share the story and then articulate the connections: modelling for listeners ways to understand the stories as filters of their own experiences, for discerning better choices for each of us on our own journeys.<br /><br />JohnJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06245470576919732592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-12731163561395375142010-08-02T15:35:58.823-04:002010-08-02T15:35:58.823-04:00Roy, Leaving Gary out of the conversation at this ...Roy, Leaving Gary out of the conversation at this point -- as arguing with him is pretty pointless.<br /><br />My only concern with the statement about taking the Bible seriously but not literally, which Marcus Borg has suggested in many places, is that there is a tendency to take everything as metaphor -- so we go totally the opposite direction. This was the problem with medieval exegesis, which took Origen and Augustine way beyond what I think even they would have affirmed.Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-8920138207015650322010-08-02T15:23:52.957-04:002010-08-02T15:23:52.957-04:00Great post Roy. You'll have to forgive Gary. ...Great post Roy. You'll have to forgive Gary. He's our resident fundamentalist. You'll find that he's incapable of understanding the ability to value biblical writing for the spiritual truths they impart while rejecting a literal interpretation of the written word. Gary's the type of guy who would recommend that you drink insecticide if you mentioned that you had "butterlies in your stomach."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-37971650716953479922010-08-02T14:03:30.996-04:002010-08-02T14:03:30.996-04:00People who say they "take the Bible seriously...People who say they "take the Bible seriously", but deny what it clearly says, are lying about taking it seriously. <br /><br />What is the advantage of pretending that anything in the Bible is true, when you don't really believe it? In Cornwall's case, it puts food on his table to play the game. For those in the pews who don't depend on money from playing church, what is your excuse? Stupidity?Garynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-51760130536532023862010-08-02T13:36:01.998-04:002010-08-02T13:36:01.998-04:00Bob, I visited a UCC congregation in Phoenix that ...Bob, I visited a UCC congregation in Phoenix that said something to the effect of - "We take the Bible seriously. That is why we cannot take it literally."<br />Of course, taking the text literally when all of science or history contradicts the text leaves us with two options: jettisoning faith altogether (after all, the text is lying), or denying what is clear in front of our eyes. There must be a third option, reading the text seriously for what it is and finding that which must be expressed through poetry and metaphor rather than prose.royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00508828835908673347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-52548174198835542902010-08-02T11:58:43.979-04:002010-08-02T11:58:43.979-04:00I see the troll is back. Somebody must have forgo...I see the troll is back. Somebody must have forgotten Gary's birthday again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-18378802856446968512010-08-02T10:57:00.858-04:002010-08-02T10:57:00.858-04:00Cornwall,
You might not know it, but you are alre...Cornwall,<br /><br />You might not know it, but you are already "outside the Biblical witness". And have been for a long time. The question is, why don't you know it? or why won't you admit it?Garynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22980286.post-51961134534158899362010-08-02T10:38:17.367-04:002010-08-02T10:38:17.367-04:00Bob, I too have been accused, sometimes justly, of...Bob, I too have been accused, sometimes justly, of not preaching the Bible. You are right in your observation that what this accusation sometimes means is that the preacher is using the biblical text in a way that differs from what the hearer recognizes or can understand or that the preacher has failed to preach the doctrine that is understood to be "what the Bible says." I had the good fortune yesterday to hear a sermon that began with Luke's version of the parable of tearing down barns, moved to an insight from Basil of Caesaria, expanded by Thomas Merton, then applied to our time, and driven home by describing the preacher's recent conversations with homeless people in Portland. It was, in my mind, a Bible sermon completely at home in a progressive church! Clearly, it can be done!Keith Watkinshttp://keithwatkins.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com